lunch today with john woo was good. wish the rest of you coulda made it. shared pretty much the deal on what we did, why i recruited lummps guys, the fun stuff we did, the ways we saw god at work with different people, some of the reactions we've been encountering some. as i expected, he was pretty cool with everything and understanding of the wisdom in being discrete.

i asked him if what he thought of it all, particularly for next year. he pretty much said that it was good to be selective in who you bring in (sort of like you are selective on who goes on a missions trip), saw that it was ok as an activity, and how you treat the news of it should be appropriate considering the lumps body and how closely knit a group it is. (like how free or constrained you feel to do personal stuff.)

i felt that it was good to update him on this and other stuff (like the world of blogging), mostly so that he could have a better understanding of the pulse of lumps and what things go on in it.

regarding winch's point...i have no problems with sharing the truth and the light. i think if *most* people were to talk with us about what we did, what it's all about, and the fruit that comes out of the activity (fellowship with the bros in the real world, accountability, being lights in the world), then that would be really great. i still think that it's not good for the body to let people fall into incorrect assumptions and judgements by only seeing pieces of the puzzle.

it was good to meet up with all of you for the casual debreifing. i dunno if anything shared was really too new...but it was good to share stuff in person (not just on the blog). i know we didn't have a ton of time for everyone to share. if you guys have something to express, particularly your personal reflections, faith observations, or affirmations for the group...by all means please share!

hmm i came across a verse yesterday while i was reading the Bible... John 3:19-21
"19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
This might be part of why ppl had probs with the secrecy.

good discretion, no destruction

i agree with afu's original point...that our chaperoning is not such an evil thing that it would cause the *destruction* of the guys.

imo, the regular guys that i know (who would be the ones who would learn about it), are not as weak (or simple-minded) as that. (there may be some people like that who are on lumps-talk tho, but not the regular guys.) particularly in taking discretions in sharing about it (about the two-week involvement itself) i don't think it is such a negative thing.

i do believe that discretions are absolutely necessary tho to be edifying to the body and not cause them to stumble...
- to not encourage extensive superficial talk about the pageant girls, which leads to an inherent contrast to the lumps girls (e.g. looks, personality, etc.)
- to not cause some people to not fall into judgement on others (unfair and unjustified judgement on "weaker" or less involved christians.)
- to not cause others to have a preconceived notion of pageant girls who may come in to lumps thru us (e.g. karen should be coming this week)

now if it were to appear that we had gone out of the fellowship to "find" non-christian girls to date, b/c we weren't happy with the christian girls we meet in lumps...now that would be a very serious issue. i think it would also contradict a lot of the stuff that we've been sharing with our christian brothers and sisters.

(note that dating a non-christian is not a sin, but just a dangerous thing.)

for those of you guys free for wed lunch, john woo will meet up with me and "some of my other free friends." (we'll share with him some to get his perspective and to share the praises on stuff. i don't feel to gain his approval...but b/c i know he'll be understanding.)

meet up / debrief / pray

i'd really like to be able to meet up with all of you guys together. to sorta share, debrief, and pray. even if you guys don't have much to share which hasn't been shared/blogged....i'd really like to personally encourage you guys on, to have a little bit of closure on this journey we went on together, to strengthen our christ-bond as brothers, and to pray together for the people we've met and for each other.

maybe meet up for an hour after lumps? or some other nite would be fine too.

oops! i misread it. my bad bro. the david part is umm.. kinda random... :D but i think my second "side note" part is still valid. i really do feel that we need to go the extra mile to make sure there is that harmony within the church even if we didnt do anything "wrong".

I hafta disagree with u aaron. Ppl back in corinth had conscience problems with FOOD. And aren't the opposite sex a much more greater attraction and temptation than food? Even King David, who's heart sought after God own (couldnt find the reference verse for this), succumbed to this temptation with Bathsheba when he "sent messengers to get her" (2sam 11:4) which led to him to sin, eventually breaking the 6th, 7th 9th and 10th commandments. So although it didnt lead to the "destruction" of David, although it could have (he later repented and lost a son) it did lead him to sin. which brings us back to point TWO "Do not destroy with your [women] him for whom Christ died"

As a side note: I kinda feel like verses 16 and 17 is for all of us as escorts. bcuz its seems like this "good thing" is being spoken of badly and i feel it shud be our duty to restore not only our righteousness thru the justification of our actions, but also to extend ourselves further to restore the peace and joy within the church...

clearing up the misquote

over on the lumps blog, i tried to clear up the rumored issue which was very stumbling for some people. how fw supposedly said that he would not tell the sunset pastors about what we're doing. frank told me his perspective two weeks ago on the theological issue discussed, and he confirmed it for me again tonite.

this is a little of what he said to me to encourage me on...

I think we stand on solid Biblical grounds
on this matter. The main issue is now a matter for us
to exercise Godly wisdom to live out Romans 14:16 and
14:19 -

"Therefore do not let what is for you a good thing be
spoken of as evil;"

and

"So then we pursue the things which make for peace and
the building up of one another."

I'll be praying for you...

the lizzy praise

i chatted with her tonite and confirmed her interest in church. i really praise god for the designed situation, which i just discovered! after coming to sunset, she was talking to alfred who she knows from a business competition group. she shared about the pageant. alf asked if she knew donny (who he knew cuz of church). that's how she and he made the connection between church and all of us. she just learned then that he goes to the same church as us. alf referred her to mike lai, who could give her a ride to sunset. she said that she was really interested in coming with us (her first ever exposure to church), and she liked it. (way cool!) well, it also turns out that mike lai is co-leading the cal aacf seekers group (monday nites). i told that to liz, and she was really interested in going. i get on the phone with mike to get more info, and it turns out that his co-leader is an RA in liz's dorm (stern). and of course, liz knows the RA. they'll probably be walking together to the sg on monday. mike says that the seeker sg should be just right for liz, since it's half-frosh, half-sophs.

man, this whole scenario for liz is working out so perfectly...i'm in awe. god's pretty awesome.

please pray for liz as she explores faith, church, and the seekers group.

i just took down the public archives. if you needed to, you can still access the older posts when you're logged in.

the reason why i'm sharing these different opinions and judgements that i'm getting from various people, isn't to solidify all my guys to be prepared for criticism and be on my side. (well, maybe a tad.) but it's more to help you understand the various perception and fellowship issues that are now at stake. please don't be hatin on the bros who might express skeptical opinions, but still accept the guys as your bros, despite shortcomings in understanding.

like ds...he's still one of my best buds. even tho we sorta had the confrontational discussions, at the end i affirmed and validated some of his relationship and fellowship concerns (for me) and motivations for doing it. he's still a bro of mine (even tho i disagree with some skeptical, conservative perspectives.)

i'm looking to you guys to share your wisdom. ideas and thoughts?

btw, it's really cool to have learned yesterday from alf that EY is really interested in coming to scbc on sundays. one of these days soon i'm gonna do the uc ballroom class on wed nites, to brush up on my lacking social dancing skills and to also get a chance to talk to her and encourage her on. mike lai could be her ride to scbc and he also leads the cal aacf seekers group. how cool is that?

I have to agree. Stumbling and accountability are both dynamic terms that apply differently to different people as each person is at a different place and thus have different understandings of wut God hates and wut he likes. "All things are permissible but not all things are beneficial"
Accountability shud be keeping ppl accountable for to their own decision, not to wut others think is rite or wrong (unless it is blatantly against God) Different people stumble over different things and it takes a more intimate knowledge of a person to determine exactly wut does cause them to stumble or exactly how/wut to keep then accountable to.

nice hour long chat with a dude...

dude: hey gw
dude: no need to defend yourself bro
dude: :-)

GKWsf: what up
GKWsf: ok cool
GKWsf: only thought i'd share since dan was advocating me to do so

dude: i don't question YOUR motives

GKWsf: =)

dude: but i still don't know about you inviting others in the fellowship to do it
dude: cuz you can never tell motives
dude: sometimes it's bad for certain guys

GKWsf: we talked a lot about motives actually...

dude: makes them stumble
dude: people talk about motives

GKWsf: i know ppl dont have as high a priority
GKWsf: as me

dude: but that doesn't mean that they are completely honest about it

GKWsf: often

dude: high a priority as what?

GKWsf: about sharing and stuff...
GKWsf: maybe...

dude: regardless of sharing

GKWsf: yeah

dude: certain guys it's just not good for
dude: causes them to stumble

GKWsf: i think i've been acutely aware of that...

dude: the fact that it has to be so secretive is my main point of contention

GKWsf: well back to the motives thing...
GKWsf: first...

dude: that someone from the group can say that they wouldn't tell jerry or jeff or scbc because they wouldn't
understand
dude: that's lame

GKWsf: what frank told dan was taken out of context
GKWsf: i talked to frank
GKWsf: about what he said
GKWsf: and to dan what he said about frank
GKWsf: but about motives...and stuff...regardless of what was expressed and
actual ones...
GKWsf: there have been a few times when i've had to correct or rebuke guys
GKWsf: that i've brought iin
GKWsf: in terms of behavior

dude: then they shouldn't be invited

GKWsf: sometimes just being loud

dude: see the issue isn't what you're trying to do

GKWsf: or playing around too much

dude: the issue is that some guys aren't ready for that
dude: why go to something like that

GKWsf: or stuff like that

dude: instead of say going to minister to international students
dude: what is the incentive?
dude: the incentive is the possiblity of meeting people

GKWsf: corrected and encouraged some guys to really watch how they talk

dude: are you listening to me?

GKWsf: yeah....go on

dude: so yeah you can correct them and all
dude: but they shouldn't need a babysitter to begin with ya know?
dude: i mean
dude: i totally know where you're coming from
dude: and although i know your intentions are good
dude: just noticing that all the people you brought to church were female in the list
dude: it seemed kinda skewed
dude: like it's just worrisome
dude: especially since a lot of guys are looking
dude: and don't find it at lumps
dude: causing younger dudes to stumble is a very dangerous thing
dude: and as much as frank may not have been intentional about what he said
dude: there was truth in it
dude: because you guys wouldn't want jerry or jeff to know or even john to know about it
dude: there's something wrong when you have to go on a stealth mission without the support of the church
dude: would you go to china without the support of a church?
dude: if you were up front and open it might have been different
dude: but i understand why you weren't
dude: cuz certain guys weren't invited
dude: but then why were others invited?
dude: cuz they were socially skilled and wouldn't talk about it?
dude: just a few things that i can see why people might be concerned
dude: that's all

GKWsf: ok...those are all legitimate concerns
GKWsf: i'll try to share some other perspectives and dimensions to them
GKWsf: to help fill in some gaps

dude: sure thing
dude: fill in some gaps?

GKWsf: in perspective and understanding of it
GKWsf: that's all
GKWsf: lemme go back to your earlier points...

dude: ummm...
dude: what are ytou doing

GKWsf: - i think it would be irresponsible for me to invite and encourage some of
the guys to do some of this. but i honestly do feel that with the active mentoring
and preparation, correcting, spurring them on...that it's ok.
GKWsf: i know that there are some misconceptions about the pageant and stuff

dude: you think this is mentoring and preparation?!

GKWsf: no...
GKWsf: hang on...
GKWsf: i know that there are a lot of misconceptions about the pageant, and
people in it. most of them are pretty normal people. nothing too outstanding
about them. some of them are pretty i guess. most of them are pretty average. i
do see most of this experience as like a two week summer camp.
GKWsf: in terms of hanging out with people
GKWsf: escorts coming in...christian and nonchristian
GKWsf: might have certain ideas about what the girls are like
GKWsf: or how they could be really hot or attractive or dating material

dude: no

GKWsf: well after the two weeks, you really learn otherwise

dude: i have no expecations
dude: about that

GKWsf: but some do.

dude: they can be totally normal
dude: sure
dude: fine

GKWsf: ok..

dude: i don't think they're hot
dude: i'm saying that

GKWsf: in the middle of my point.

dude: a lot of guys in lumps a la eli's reidiculous blog

GKWsf: no kidding.

dude: are lookign for women
dude: so going outside of lumps is a big thing for them
dude: and doing it in that kinda venue is just asking for trouble
dude: 2 weeks can happen anywhere
dude: why didn't you ask dshih
dude: or dchi
dude: or mlai?

GKWsf: well this whole experience is really mostly about hanging out with the
guys...and that's what you get out of it.
GKWsf: too busy.

dude: did you bother to ask>?

GKWsf: i told mike lai about it last year.

dude: i'm cool with the hanging with guys thing

GKWsf: i pretty much asked the unemployed guys

dude: but then how come all the people you listed were female?

GKWsf: who had time
GKWsf: b/c they could get the most out of it and help out where we needed help.

dude: would you have asked jacob?

GKWsf: i asked him last year
GKWsf: he declined
GKWsf: so didnt ask him again.

dude: plus he can't walk ;-)
dude: but yeah
dude: you still haven't addressed the issue

GKWsf: yeah that...and cant serve food. :-)

dude: about why all the people in your email were women

GKWsf: ok...about why all girls?
GKWsf: yeah...that was an anomoly i wasnt expecting
GKWsf: from this year
GKWsf: we did have real conversations about faith with a lot of different people
GKWsf: there are guys too
GKWsf: but i think this year the dynamics were different
GKWsf: as the regular escorts, were the guys that i brought in.
GKWsf: we did try to share and be real in our faith
GKWsf: with some of the guys
GKWsf: just yesterdasy
GKWsf: or monday...
GKWsf: was really trying to share and encourage this guy brian
GKWsf: who is pretty much a non-practicing christian
GKWsf: no, we weren't only trying to focus on the girls
GKWsf: my guys did get to know really well my non-xian friend ken
GKWsf: who i knew from advertising school
GKWsf: a few of my guys
GKWsf: had a heart
GKWsf: really early on
GKWsf: for him
GKWsf: as someone we can befriend
GKWsf: and get to know
GKWsf: be cool with and invite out to fellowship
GKWsf: in fact one guy shared that perspective with the group
GKWsf: immediately after meeting him
GKWsf: but for him
GKWsf: he isn't as receptive...still says that church isn't his thing
GKWsf: we've encouraged a few guys to come to church with us
GKWsf: many of them are people who used to go to church
GKWsf: and it's just not their thing
GKWsf: for me in the past few years...
GKWsf: in a witnessing standpoint
GKWsf: i was mostly about the guys
GKWsf: that you meet doing it
GKWsf: and not about the girls
GKWsf: it really surprised me
GKWsf: to see how receptive and positive the reaction we got from various girls
GKWsf: i do understand the extreme trickiness and stickiness of trying to witness
to someone across gender
GKWsf: i am actively guarding the guys to not fall into the pitfall or acceptance of
dating a nonxian
GKWsf: explaining why you shouldnt
GKWsf: why it's an unwise thing

dude: yeah explaining is one thing
dude: but wanting to date is another
dude: the power of lust is huge
dude: if some of these guys
dude: start dating non-xians
dude: as you know this is a major set up for
dude: then it might get ugly

GKWsf: yeah at times i have been disappointed with some incidents, but still over
all i think that it has been a positive fellowship experience for most of
them...with each other...
GKWsf: and different guys trying to guard each other

dude: that's the thing

GKWsf: about dating non xians, about being a good witness to the guys
GKWsf: , particularly the guys

dude: you are putting them in a position where it's a setup
dude: it's dangerous
dude: that's all

GKWsf: how well do you know the guys that i brought in?

dude: well enough
dude: some i know are looking too
dude: so that makes it doubly hard
dude: i'm just sayin gw, maybe you're really disciplined
dude: but for a lot of younger guys
dude: like aaron

GKWsf: like aaron

dude: who are impressionable
dude: it's not a good thing
dude: yes
dude: see
dude: you know what i'm getting at

GKWsf: yes... i know about aaron

dude: okay
dude: bigger point
dude: why not talk to john or jerry about it

GKWsf: you know...maybe i will now...

dude: good
dude: i think that would be really good

GKWsf: since this is causing so much debate about stuff

dude: that's the thing
dude: anything taht causes divisiveness in the body
dude: is dangerous

GKWsf: from other outsider perspectives...

dude: which is why it should never be secretive
dude: or else it causes problems

GKWsf: ok...the secretiveness...
GKWsf: lemme go into that...
GKWsf: you know that i had to handpick guys
GKWsf: and ask some guys to do it
GKWsf: not ask some guys to do it
GKWsf: some b.c they had the time
GKWsf: others cuz they didnt
GKWsf: if everyone were as free

dude: yeah
dude: i hear yas

GKWsf: i would ask a whole lot more people
GKWsf: but for some people

dude: and didn't want the others to get hurt

GKWsf: some guys

dude: like eli
dude: i know that

GKWsf: if they had all the time in the world
GKWsf: i wouldnt ask them

dude: i think it's good you were selective
dude: BUT

GKWsf: b/c of social immaturity

dude: i think that there is more to it

GKWsf: b/f of a resulting negative witness

dude: that everyone is secretive about
dude: liek frank's comment

GKWsf: something that i really learned last time

dude: you know that it woulda been frowned upon by SCBC
dude: or the pastors
dude: or even other lumpers
dude: who wouldn't go at all

GKWsf: i talked to frank about it

dude: and didn't want to get flack
dude: frank was just being honest
dude: i respect that

GKWsf: dan was pushing a hypothetical situation
GKWsf: and what he quoted frank on
GKWsf: i think pulls it out of context
GKWsf: but for me...
GKWsf: from my perspective...of not overly publicizing things, say on lumps talk
GKWsf: about everything...

dude: you publicize most stuff greg
dude: there was a reason you didn't publicize this
dude: beyond selectivity

GKWsf: one sec...
GKWsf: i think for me.. i know how people talk about it...just natural curiousity,
mostly about the girls. people of course always ask so what are the girls like, are
they pretty, etc. it's not all about that. it's a bigger experience than that. i didnt
want to encourage talk about that at lumps. (i know how it happened last time.)
i know some guys can joke like saying...you're the man, or somethign like that
cuz of the girls...

dude: but you know what?
dude: bringing all those girls in

GKWsf: i also know that when we were at lumps...it was a good break from that
pageant world stuff...and we didnt need the talk of it,,
GKWsf: hang on..,.

dude: it shows that it's kinda true

GKWsf: lemme finish,..
GKWsf: first...
GKWsf: i also know...that say publicizing this in front of a lot of people WOULD be
a stumbling block for some guys
GKWsf: from the imprression that guys would have
GKWsf: from the model that some guys could take
GKWsf: or even look to whatever activity as a license to do other stuff
GKWsf: for example
GKWsf: i wouldnt want this to be a license
GKWsf: for some guys to go to drink club with the whatever motive/reason to try
to witness to people
GKWsf: i think that environment is a completely different one
GKWsf: than the pageant
GKWsf: in terms of how you get to know people, what you do there etc
GKWsf: i remember you saying in passing that jimmy was encouraging you to get
lumps ppl to go to drink club, as for outreach
GKWsf: or something
GKWsf: dont remember too much of that
GKWsf: but from my opinion, encouraging guys to an activity like that
GKWsf: is on a different level that escorting...

dude: why is that?

GKWsf: some ppl who dont understand or grasp what the experience might see it
as exactly the same.

dude: but in many ways, a lot of people still see it the same
dude: meeting non-christians
dude: no different
dude: but then there's the whole stumbling element

GKWsf: for drink club...it's pretty much a club scene. it's not like a coffeehouse
thing where you go around chatting with people.

dude: you think these guys would have done it if you were hanging out at an esl program?

GKWsf: i think if i were to try to validate escorting

dude: or with seniors?

GKWsf: ...

dude: even at cityteam?

GKWsf: no, of course not
GKWsf: of course the guys have mixed motives and intentions

dude: okay

GKWsf: no i'm not trying to raise this as pure ministry

dude: as long as you admit that

GKWsf: or a missions trip

dude: cuz only johnny admitted it to me

GKWsf: i dont see it that way
GKWsf: if you were to strip away all of the positive christian elements
GKWsf: for my personal experience
GKWsf: i would still do it, for the fun of meeting people, eating free meals,
getting in on a lot of cool experiences, helping in the community, chilling with
guys
GKWsf: no one of my guys
GKWsf: is taking the stance of a pure ministry
GKWsf: yeah i agree
GKWsf: that would be baloney if people were to say that
GKWsf: esp b/c people know of whatever other fun, attractive elements to it
GKWsf: i really see this similar to my first trip to china
GKWsf: after i graduated college
GKWsf: when i went with ang, michelle, erica ng and someoneelse
GKWsf: i was not interested in missions
GKWsf: i did not go with the pure perspective of a missions trip
GKWsf: i went primarily for personal reasons
GKWsf: i wanted to try something new, hang out with friends,
GKWsf: chinese culture,
GKWsf: but along the way, in terms of preparing for it and doing it...i was
exteremely sensitive to the role i could have as a christian
GKWsf: as god is placing me in a place which is lacking in knowledge and faith of
him
GKWsf: that summer experience
GKWsf: meeting people
GKWsf: and befriending them
GKWsf: did really open my eyes to how god is needed overseas, and how people
are missing him
GKWsf: it did that for a lot of us who went
GKWsf: we had a huge concern for the lost people we met with over there
GKWsf: we prayed for them and tried to share with them
GKWsf: angelia was definitely more accutely aware of that perspective
GKWsf: than i was earlier on
GKWsf: that summer of doing something for personal reasons
GKWsf: did put me in a role to touch people's lives
GKWsf: created in me a greater heart for missions
GKWsf: and was the reason why i went on the first thailand missions trip
GKWsf: i definitely admit the personal fun reasons of why i decided to go to china
GKWsf: that summer
GKWsf: no problems with that at all
GKWsf: it's the same personal situation for these guys i brought in too
GKWsf: i possible have the greatest motivation for the witnessing opportunities
GKWsf: for some of the other guys, they do also admit the personal reasons
ranking higher than witnessing ones
GKWsf: like for johnny
GKWsf: it's like how he views basketball
GKWsf: for exercise, and fun,
GKWsf: and further down on the list it's about opportunities to connect to his non
christian friends
GKWsf: and to bond with them and share with them
GKWsf: from the christian perspective of escorting for most of these guys
GKWsf: thats what it's all about\
GKWsf: first hanging out with the guys
GKWsf: secondarily for the new experiences and meeting new people. some
possibly cute, fun people.

dude: see

GKWsf: thirdly to be a positive witness
GKWsf: i really dont have a problem with that

dude: i think that's all well and good

GKWsf: if its in that order

dude: really
dude: but the fact taht you even said "cute" bothers me
dude: i dunno gw

GKWsf: particularly if i can be an active postive factor to regulate the
environment

dude: i don['t think i'm gonna change your mind
dude: because you've already debated this to death
dude: but just remember, if everyone has points of contention that you have to constantly defend, maybe there
is something that people are genuinely concerned about
dude: and that you should talk to john and jerry about it

GKWsf: ok...i agree with that

dude: okay

GKWsf: and i know that in my freedom to do this personal activity
GKWsf: i don't want to hurt lumps or the body thru it

dude: as long as you're not discounting what everyone says
dude: and just trying to come up with an answer to every point
dude: that's all
dude: be open minded about it
dude: everyone else is trying to be

GKWsf: no...i'm not

dude: but also remember the state of lumps
dude: and where a lot of people are aat

GKWsf: yeah that is true.
GKWsf: in my opinion of the guys longing after girls...
GKWsf: i dont think theyre all in the same boat as eli

dude: i know
dude: but they are still there

GKWsf: and that they dont share the minority opinoin
GKWsf: that he so vocally expresses

dude: sure

GKWsf: or thinks that he represents

dude: but they are definitely looking
dude: that's all you need to be aware of
dude: so putting them with "cute" nonchristian girls
dude: is dangerous
dude: playing with fire

GKWsf: i think b/c of the active role that i've been taking in all of these different
unsure areas
GKWsf: i feel more confident about the environment
GKWsf: i know it would be more of a dangerous situation
GKWsf: environment
GKWsf: if i were not there
GKWsf: if i did not try to take such a shaping hand in the culture and environment
of it
GKWsf: i definitely acknowledge that
GKWsf: ok. i think i'm done.

dude: ok
dude: fair enough

GKWsf: cool.
GKWsf: i will talk to john about it over the next week, to share with him, and to
gain his perspective on it.

dude: that'd be great

GKWsf: if anything...to gain more advice on how i can be a brother to these guys
and to still be a stronger positive witness to everyone.

dude: well you should also talk about whether it's a good idea or not
dude: altogether

GKWsf: ok... i will.

good gosh

i just talked to dan for over an hour talking, debating, defending, explaining all the pageant stuff.
he was (again) sharing his and others concerns about the activity...
- it being a grey thing,
- how it could be a bad thing for some younger christians to do,
- better to ask them to do stuff with the church or go on a missions trip,
- drawing an analogy as an unwise thing to witness to prostitutes
- how people really don't like/understand the secretive nature of stuff

i told him lots of the stuff that i blogged before and the praises that i've been sharing with people:

- two sundays ago took two non-christians to church. they were excited and willing to come. SW hasn't been since 2nd grade, and is interested in exploring things. EY came out to church, and isn't christian either.
- talked to my friend LC, and she says that god placed me and some of my friends in her life to get her back on the right track. it seems like a spirtual interest is slowly being awakened. hopefully she can come out to lumps/scbc some timesoon.
- MC isn't christian, hasn't had much exposure to christianity, and is interested in checking it out.
- KC, expressed interest in coming to church/lumps. i think she just got a new bf, so i hope it doesn't distract her too much from her interest.
- AC is looking for a new church after moving to the city a few times. hopefully she can check out sunset / lumps.
you can continue to pray for my friends and i as we try our best to be lights and witnesses out in the world, thanks!

i shared winchell's recent post with him on the phone, and i think it said a lot to him.

he told me that dlu has more conservative opinions about everything, more than him. so acting out of faith to proactively be a peace-maker and reconciler, i'm going to e-mail him. fwd him winchell's post and share with him the praises that i've seen.

i've also shared with dan how i've tried my best to encourage you guys in faith, to hold you guys to accountability as brothers in christ, to rebuke and correct as needed. how i've seen each of really put faith into action at times. what frustrates me is how other people judge others. some without talking to me. ah well. i'll talk to the people one on one as needed.

stuff to share and pray about...

prayers and praises

reno was good. got to know people better. talked to some peeps about faith, like mc and lc. prayed with jabrone at one point for peeps sat nite. later on i prayed for an opportunity for one of us lumps escorts to have the chance to share our testimony with someone. well, god provided the opportunity. in the bus ride home, got to talking more with mc, was talking about stuff and she got around to asking about xian...how i became a xian. so i got my chance to share with her. (ptl!) she's curious and i think is willing to check it out, particularly after the impression she got from meeting us. she said our fellowship sounds cool. later on, winch got the chance to talk to her too, and he also got the opportunity to share his testimony (or at least the first half of it). (ptl again!)

pray that mc will have more opportunities to learn more about god. she admitted that she hasn't had too much exposure to it, altho she does have a bunch of catholic friends.

being an appropriate witness

talked to bing tonite. caught up on some stuff. found out more to his side of the story he heard about me being pushy or overly persistant inviting pam to church on sunday. i think i realize that i was possibly too persistent in trying to motivate her to go to church. we talked a little about a bigger issue about how religion can be a touchy thing in a pageant, esp with a mix of people. this year it came out a lot more in conversation b/c you guys were escorts and were around. in the past, bing said that dorris would not have allowed it (a girl going to church). this year, things were looser and also different. i did tell bing that i had cleared it with sydney, pretty much what the girls were requesting. so this particular change in the pageant culture (and appropriate protocol) was unexpected for some of the older escorts. my phone chat with bing was pretty good...wasn't really confrontational and he wasn't coming down on me much. i'm glad it was something we clarified (for what had happened and for the future). this was really good to be cleared up for my personal witness to him and the older guys, for how i represent the actions/agendas for all of us, for setting up involvement in the future and the rest of the year.

just b/c we have a really good "in" to this secular chinatown world, we should still tread carefully in balancing how our christian actions are perceived.

bing did bring up traditional legitimate stuff to be concerned/aware of, like the buddhist roots of the older chinese people. i know if it appeared that we had a huge agenda to "convert" people or something sorta skewed like that...it would not be good at all. if we were to ever formalize a connection between scbc and lumps, it would not be good if it was taken a certain way by some people. (i think to be on the cautious side, it's better to treat it like you would a missions trip to china...with that same political sensitivity. certain things shared generally. not putting things in too much of a public light.)

pray for tact, appropriateness and wisdom for all of us as we be lights in this pageant community.

continue to be a good witness in your character and behavior

even tho the official two weeks is over, it doesn't end our interactions with everyone or the scrutiny that we will go thru (as christian witnesses). it certainly has not stopped how fast news and gossip travel in this pageant community. particularly this year, how the group seems to be knit together...it travels lightning fast with the speed of im chatting. i would be extremely careful and cautious before you say anything negative about anyone. (afu, i think you know now how unwise your nancy bui e-mail was.)

particularly as you develop really close friendships (or even something more than friendships) with some of the girls, please be very careful to be beyond reproach.

disclosure

i'm slowly sharing with lumps peeps now about our experience...about how different people were open and receptive to getting to know us as christians. i was getting all set to even sorta make a statement on the lumpsblog, but i'm glad i didn't just yet. from my above points, too much direct discussion would not be too smart, and could eventually have some consequences. will probably share some general praises to my prayer requests which were shared on the lumps blog.

i think it's a good thing to share the praises we've seen. some of the challenges we've faced. how we've lived and grown as christians in the real world. i know some people are curious...and some true/untrue things slowly float around in the absense of information. that's just how things are. when you share, i'd try to share about our whole experience. (e.g. not just about the girls.) i would be sensitive to the different considerations...(how some people would handle the news we have to share, some may be stumbled by it or have problems with it, etc.)

i'm thinking more and more about how this blog may be discovered...i'm about to close/protect the archives. only recent posts will be public. also considering changing the name of the blog to something not so obvious. you can see how i'm trying not to use full names of girls too...only initials.

our community

i think it's awesome how we've grown together as bros and as friends thru this experience. i hope that we can really continue to share, fellowship, and hang out together as the official group duties are over. i think it would be really good to have one debrief/prayer time wrapping it all up. maybe in the next week. to pray for people we've met. to share what we've learned. to pray for each other now with whatever we're facing in life. we can either keep the meeting to the guys on this blog, or else extend it to some of the other bros in christ (dp, jw, do). i'm leaning more to keeping it to us.

thoughts? comments? prayer requests for yourselves? do share.

this reno weekend should be fun. wish all of you guys could make it. a few thoughts wanted to share with you alls...

* this weekend should not just be a really fun time...but a great opportunity to be a witness still to the other pagaent ppl. please do pray for sprinkles, jabrone and me this weekend as we try to be good christian witnesses and have a lot of time to hang out and talk to ppl.

* i think one of those particular ppl is lc. also to get to know her bf, too. our interactions could set the stage for her coming to lumps/church.

* johnny and i hung out with bonnie tonite. it was cool to share with her about the pageant stuff and about the spiritual side of it all. she was definitely cool with it. i think i shoulda hooked her up with a pageant ticket, but oh well. i'm totally open and willing to share with ppl about it, but would prefer to do it in depth with them...none of this quickie stuff over im or in passing.

* i really want to post the lumpslogs blog, about how open ppl were to talk to us about faith and that s & e (the girls, not the cafe) came out to church with us. (btw, i think the amys might have assumed that they were christian...i know that amy houston did.) if you didn't know...s hadn't been to church since 2nd grade. i dunno about e. (btw, she goes to the berkeley ballroom dancing class that andy pan goes too. was thinking about visiting it sometime. i need to learn how to dance.)

i'm now slightly hesitant to share so directly and enthusiastically on the lumpslogs, cuz lc fat promoted my site on the chinatown list. i don't link lumpslogs from mine, but i know jayville does. i don't want it to sound to other pageant people how i was plotting and planning to try to bring ppl to church, particularly since i experienced some slight backlash for that...potentially being too pushy. (things are ok now tho, as far as i can tell.) giving the wrong impression, would seriously hurt our witness and our potential future witness. (man, all of this stuff is exactly like being on a missions trip. exact same issues.)

* talked a little with mc after lumps, when she decided to go to reno with us after all. she knew that we got out of church. she asked if we were christian or catholic. i found that pretty interesting...that she would 1) know the difference and 2) not know what we are by now. you can't assume that ppl know what we're all about or what they're notions of church are. i guess i didn't get a chance to talk with her too much in depth. can't speak mandarin. but this weekend...no one else can, so i guess she'll be speaking english!

* let's have that debrief prayer thing next week. (hmm...might have to work it around the asian am film festival...i'm gonna plug the film fest on the chinatown2k2 list...i think it'd be cool to introduce some of the pagaent people to lumps ppl that way.)